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I remember once, one of Mack, again, a good kid, good intent, but just didn't know what he was saying. He just turned to me. He's like, "Oh, you're going to get into all the schools you get into because of affirmative action.

You're Hispanic. I have to tell you, Alicia, I didn't know affirmative action was at that point. This term, "Hispanic", kept on being floated around to me, and I was like, "What are you talking about?

I'm Dominican. I'm Puerto Rican. That's my identity. This is who I am. And by the way, I got better grades than you, so of course I'm going to get into any program that I get into.

But that sense of belittlement and, again, being put into that box, that started for me really in my senior year, and I grew to understand what my place was in American society.

But I also grew unhappy and a bit rebellious with not only me being placed in this corner but these brilliant kids that I knew being placed in these boxes and labels that I thought dehumanized them and, frankly, limited their opportunity.

So that's where, in addition to being in social justice college and deciding to major in international relations and women's studies… which to this day my father is like, "What kind of job can you get with that?

But I had this liberty and this freedom, and I used it to the best of my ability, to kind of just explore what all this meant.

Alicia : And it was the same exact conversation. Especially when you have parents You know, my mom went to school to become a nurse.

My father went to school and then later became an attorney. But largely because they had grown up working class and wanted to make sure that they had professional jobs.

So I when I think back on it, it probably was scary to say, "I'm going for the most humanitarian humanity degree there is.

Daisy : Yes, there is. They're like, "What is that? My aunt's a teacher. That's it professionally for my family, and when they think of the amazing investment that they made in my education.

Their vision for me was that I was going to be President, you know? The story that I say often Actually, my daughter just wrote a piece about it for her school the other day… was that my grandmother taught me nothing in the kitchen in the home.

She was really intentional about that, and when my grandfather would complain about me not being able to do anything in the home, she would always remind him, like, "She doesn't have to because she's going to be a professional one day.

Their concept was always that I was not going to be homebound, but whatever I was going to do was something that was going to be really big for them.

But "big" means standard, and practical, and revenue-earning, and I did not do that until way past grad school, way past the fellowship that I did.

I was just drawn to what felt human to me, and I was drawn to where I could make an impact. I just didn't define that for many years.

Alicia : We can look at it retrospectively and say, "Oh, it all adds up, and it all makes sense, and all these life experiences point you in this direction.

Alicia : That was a family friend that saw something in you and gave you that job. Daisy : Yeah. Every opportunity I've ever had has, in one way or another, been influenced by someone special in my life.

My dad's friend, Alessi Stani, who I adore Ali had moved to the States during the Iran-Contra, he's Iranian, when nobody wanted to give a job to any Iranians.

They become lifelong friends. He eventually was able to leave that job and become an analyst at Moody's and become a very senior analyst there.

And at one point my father was bemoaning me not having a job at a barbecue at home, and Ali turned to him and goes, "We hire kids just like Daisy with Master's in public administration.

Just give me her resume. It was also I've always thanked Nicole Johnson, who retired recently, and Nicole is a gay woman who had a sensitivity to diversity at a time that people weren't really thinking about this.

And she saw this opportunity to build a team as an opportunity to diversify the public finance department.

And she built this small ecosystem, all of us from different racial and economic backgrounds, nationalities, you name it.

She brought these brilliant folks, some of which are still super, super senior leaders at Moody's and others who have gone on to amazing careers.

Alicia : Because there's what you learn at a place like that in terms of the actual hard skills, and then there's what I would argue is the even more important stuff, which is just that corporate language and that corporate culture.

Who walks into the meeting first? Who sits where at the table? And if you don't grow up with people who do that type of work, it's hard not to feel like you walk into those spaces and everyone's speaking a different language.

Daisy : Well, they are. I tell folks, "No one gives you a decoder ring when you enter into a corporation that helps you figure out the cultural nuances of a place.

I walked into Moody's knowing nothing other than I knew nothing, actually. Let's just be clear. I knew nothing. And I stumbled.

I stumbled my first couple of years, but I benefited from the kindness of folks who recognized me stumbling but recognized potential in me.

That's why recognizing potential in others is so important to me, because I've been the beneficiary of it. The whole concept you raised around who speaks, and where they sit in the room.

Who has an opportunity to speak first? I have to say, and I've said this often, I was the beneficiary of not just the kindness of others but of being in a place And so, it doesn't matter your level.

It doesn't matter where you sit in the organization. What matters is your ability to be able to support your decision. So very early on, I had to learn to find a voice, and I learned eventually that I didn't have a voice walking in.

I honed my voice by watching others. Someone who become a good friend, Bart … And if Bart ever hears this, he'll recognize this. I was in a meeting once where I didn't say anything, and afterwards Bart took me to the side with kindness but very intentionally and said, "You don't get paid to not have an opinion here.

You're here to express your opinion. I didn't know if I was going to be right. And if you believe in yourself and you believe in what outcome you're trying to achieve, you'll be able to do that.

That was the first time that somebody really thoughtfully and sternly sat me down and said, "You're not here to just be pretty.

You're not here to just do everybody's bidding. You're really here to contribute. Daisy : Yes. Yeah, it was nine years into being in the company.

I was a credit risk analyst for 6, and 6 years into that role when I was thinking of leaving and trying to think about You reach this point where you're either going to be a marquee analyst for the rest of your career, or I was actually going to pursue that dream of saving the world that I had when I was an undergrad.

I got a call one day from our head of HR. Why don't you put your name in the hat for this role?

This was the first time at Moody's I had an amazing career up until that time. I had been promoted every couple of years.

I had been given opportunities every couple of years, but this was the first time where something was put in front of me where I was scared.

I was like, "Wait a second. I've never done this. HR is the function that everyone's afraid of, so why am I going to go into a function that I don't know anything about.

So I initially I didn't say no. I didn't answer for about a week, and our CFO, Linda, came to me one day and said, "I hear that you haven't accepted this role.

When I put your name in a hat for something, you don't say no to it. Not even recognizing that this senior leader in the organization even knew who I was or what value I brought to the organization, but she told me the story and she said, "Listen, I've been watching you.

You really care about this. And that was the beginning of what I believe has been the most transformative experience of my life and where I found my purpose.

Alicia : I heard you in another interview say about your family, "Everything I do is to make them proud. Alicia : And yet it's heavy in a way that can make little decisions or medium-sized decisions like, "Do I take this job, or not that job?

I always think of myself as my father's daughter, and my grandmother and my grandfather's granddaughter. These are the things that I carry with me, and I try to think about it less as being heavy and weighty and more as freedom and opportunity.

My dad cries half of the time when he's talking about me because he's so proud, and that brings me so much joy.

I've made some choices, Alicia, that have not made my parents happy. Leaving Google is one of those choices where the entire world is like, "Why would you ever leave Google?

I was like, I needed to be back home. I needed to find my joy, and I needed to do the work that I know is going to be most impactful, and I knew that I could do that somewhere else.

That's, frankly, all I needed to say to him. At the end, fundamentally, our parents put a lot of pressure on us, but if you just dissect all of the external societal images and brands that people expect of us, all they really want from us it to be happy.

And if that happiness comes in the form of doing a job that is less glamorous and less exciting. That, I think, is completely acceptable in my family.

Daisy : To me, the freedom is … a lot of folks feel that I can only be this person because this is who my family expects me to be, and this is what I'm supposed to give to my family.

But when you really explore beyond that, you can be so many different things and still give so much to your family. I think we get stuck in this like, the only thing I can do in this world is X, Y, Z, and I need to make this much money, and I need to make this much money by this age and whatnot.

But for me, my freedom comes from knowing I'm going to be okay regardless because I've built that financial stability for myself.

But I also know that going forward in my career, for me, it's about finding my highest and best purpose. And my highest and best purpose may be something that could be incongruous to what my parents ever believed my job would be, but if my highest and best purpose makes me happy, helps me raise a healthy and wonderful human being that I am with my daughter, and helps me have a healthy relationship with my husband?

That ultimately, the freedom in it, I know that it brings my family joy and that I am serving them in doing that. Email us at latinatolatina bustle.

And please leave a review… we love hearing from you. Our executive editor is Emily Anne Epstein, our editorial supervisor is Rosanne Salvatore, and we gotta give special thanks to Jenny Hollander!

Menendez, Alicia, host. By Jenny Hollander. And here's the full transcript of the episode. Daisy : Oh gosh. Alicia : Sort of. Daisy : Okay.

Alicia : But I'm still Daisy : You're still looking at me like, "Nah. Daisy : Oh yeah. Alicia : The Constitution wasn't written with people like us in mind.

Alicia : So how do you actually change those corporate cultures? I mean, listen. If it was easy, we would have fixed it a long time ago.

Alicia : I have a personal question. Daisy : They do. But, again, it depends in what context, and it depends Alicia : How do I maximize that event?

Daisy : Not at all. Alicia : What? Daisy : And that was the age Alicia : I'm sorry, I know I just popped a mic.

Daisy : That was my age when I had my daughter. Alicia : Yeah, I turn 35 in July. That is terrifying. Alicia : Yeah, that's a weird welcome to America.

Daisy : Yes, yes. I had a lot of weird welcomes to America. Alicia : Like what? Alicia : One of my favorite things about you.

Alicia : In New Jersey? Alicia : Just so you know, I'm a women's studies major too. Daisy : Oh, I love it. Daisy : Absolutely.

Alicia : And it's there that you started doing diversity work. Daisy : It is. Alicia : Right? It feels like every Daisy : I'm getting emotional when you're saying it.

Alicia : Well, because it's so true.

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I was part of all of the big events that happened. And while there was a difference that existed, there was never really friction behind it.

There was just this acknowledgment of, I'm in today, and I'm not in, and yet I can flex between these two spaces. Alicia : Flexing is a good way of putting it.

And then you moved to the States when you were how old? Daisy : I was 16, starting my junior year of high school. I moved in October, and I always remember that because I moved a couple of weeks before Halloween, and I had never experienced an American Halloween.

For some reason, I'm fixated with the images of people dressing up and going to get candy from people's houses, which was a very strange cultural experience for me.

And that's the month that I moved, in Daisy : Well, I was introduced to racism really quickly when I moved to the U. I went to high school in New Jersey, as you pointed out.

And within a month of being in the high school, I befriended the one biracial kid, of course I would. The one biracial kid on campus, Brandy. Black and white.

And I befriended her through a terrible experience. We were both being berated by a skinhead. It was something that I had no knowledge of before.

Daisy : In New Jersey, yeah. This one kid And, frankly, when you think about it now, just a troubled kid that was trying to find who she was.

But she glommed onto me as being this different kid, this international kid, she would just berate me with racial slurs that, quite frankly, I didn't even know were racial slurs.

But I knew they were mean. I knew they were horrible, and it was both to me and to Brandy. I remember telling my dad one day, "There's this girl that's being mean to me.

I'm not happy to be in the States. I'm not happy to be here. You took me from the one place that I know.

What's wrong with her? Like, who does that? And my dad's eyes just opened up, and he was like, "Oh, expletive. I need to go to the school and take care of you.

Alicia : That's much more extreme than I thought we were going to talk about, which is all of a sudden being Hispanic. Because I imagine that if you grow up in the DR, you don't really understand that's a whole box that you can be put in.

The term "Hispanic" was completely unknown to me until I moved to the States. And I was put in a box that was defined by others.

As I started building a definition of what it meant outside of the traditional definition, it was clear to me that I was being put in a box of a homogeneous group of folks that were thought of as low socioeconomic background, low educational attainment.

And none of those were experiences that I grew up with. I grew up with a rich variety of Hispanic images around me of success and power and lack of And moving to the States and being put into this box was, at its extreme, really limiting and painful.

On the other hand, it seemed to be liberating me to figure out what my identity was and really forcing me to think about, "Okay, then if you're Hispanic in this country, what does that mean and who are you?

So I fought it for a long time. When I was in high school I was thought of more as the international kid, and I was immediately put into English AP courses and all these advanced courses because I had been in this really great educational environment before.

And I remember my English teacher, Mr. Smith, with all his kindness. He would berate the other students every once in a while and say, "I can't believe even the international kid knows English better than all of you.

Appreciate the kindness you're throwing my way. But at that point I was more international, and it wasn't until my senior year when that "Hispanic" term really started sticking.

And it was when we were all getting accepted to colleges. I remember once, one of Mack, again, a good kid, good intent, but just didn't know what he was saying.

He just turned to me. He's like, "Oh, you're going to get into all the schools you get into because of affirmative action.

You're Hispanic. I have to tell you, Alicia, I didn't know affirmative action was at that point. This term, "Hispanic", kept on being floated around to me, and I was like, "What are you talking about?

I'm Dominican. I'm Puerto Rican. That's my identity. This is who I am. And by the way, I got better grades than you, so of course I'm going to get into any program that I get into.

But that sense of belittlement and, again, being put into that box, that started for me really in my senior year, and I grew to understand what my place was in American society.

But I also grew unhappy and a bit rebellious with not only me being placed in this corner but these brilliant kids that I knew being placed in these boxes and labels that I thought dehumanized them and, frankly, limited their opportunity.

So that's where, in addition to being in social justice college and deciding to major in international relations and women's studies… which to this day my father is like, "What kind of job can you get with that?

But I had this liberty and this freedom, and I used it to the best of my ability, to kind of just explore what all this meant.

Alicia : And it was the same exact conversation. Especially when you have parents You know, my mom went to school to become a nurse.

My father went to school and then later became an attorney. But largely because they had grown up working class and wanted to make sure that they had professional jobs.

So I when I think back on it, it probably was scary to say, "I'm going for the most humanitarian humanity degree there is. Daisy : Yes, there is. They're like, "What is that?

My aunt's a teacher. That's it professionally for my family, and when they think of the amazing investment that they made in my education. Their vision for me was that I was going to be President, you know?

The story that I say often Actually, my daughter just wrote a piece about it for her school the other day… was that my grandmother taught me nothing in the kitchen in the home.

She was really intentional about that, and when my grandfather would complain about me not being able to do anything in the home, she would always remind him, like, "She doesn't have to because she's going to be a professional one day.

Their concept was always that I was not going to be homebound, but whatever I was going to do was something that was going to be really big for them.

But "big" means standard, and practical, and revenue-earning, and I did not do that until way past grad school, way past the fellowship that I did. I was just drawn to what felt human to me, and I was drawn to where I could make an impact.

I just didn't define that for many years. Alicia : We can look at it retrospectively and say, "Oh, it all adds up, and it all makes sense, and all these life experiences point you in this direction.

Alicia : That was a family friend that saw something in you and gave you that job. Daisy : Yeah. Every opportunity I've ever had has, in one way or another, been influenced by someone special in my life.

My dad's friend, Alessi Stani, who I adore Ali had moved to the States during the Iran-Contra, he's Iranian, when nobody wanted to give a job to any Iranians.

They become lifelong friends. He eventually was able to leave that job and become an analyst at Moody's and become a very senior analyst there.

And at one point my father was bemoaning me not having a job at a barbecue at home, and Ali turned to him and goes, "We hire kids just like Daisy with Master's in public administration.

Just give me her resume. It was also I've always thanked Nicole Johnson, who retired recently, and Nicole is a gay woman who had a sensitivity to diversity at a time that people weren't really thinking about this.

And she saw this opportunity to build a team as an opportunity to diversify the public finance department. And she built this small ecosystem, all of us from different racial and economic backgrounds, nationalities, you name it.

She brought these brilliant folks, some of which are still super, super senior leaders at Moody's and others who have gone on to amazing careers.

Alicia : Because there's what you learn at a place like that in terms of the actual hard skills, and then there's what I would argue is the even more important stuff, which is just that corporate language and that corporate culture.

Who walks into the meeting first? Who sits where at the table? And if you don't grow up with people who do that type of work, it's hard not to feel like you walk into those spaces and everyone's speaking a different language.

Daisy : Well, they are. I tell folks, "No one gives you a decoder ring when you enter into a corporation that helps you figure out the cultural nuances of a place.

I walked into Moody's knowing nothing other than I knew nothing, actually. Let's just be clear.

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